I should add that Spill didn't know who the trustees were because he didn't meet with them. He knew and met with the directors, a different group. However, if I were president of a cemetery company, I'd want to know the details. Wouldn't you?
Old Goat
JoinedPosts by Old Goat
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109
The Complete Scammer's Guide - by "Pastor" Russell (New Light!)
by Focus inmost of us are reasonably familiar with reports of scandalous goings-on of that old jellyfish lecher, the founder of the watchtower cult, the one and only charles taze russell.. but, are these stories true?.
this thread is going to be devoted to his allegedly scurrilous activities.
so, bookmark it, please, bro' focus is in possession of noo light, and we're going to explore russell like you've never seen him explored before.. we're approaching his 100th death anniversary, and for all i know this virtual exhumation may lead to a real one.
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109
The Complete Scammer's Guide - by "Pastor" Russell (New Light!)
by Focus inmost of us are reasonably familiar with reports of scandalous goings-on of that old jellyfish lecher, the founder of the watchtower cult, the one and only charles taze russell.. but, are these stories true?.
this thread is going to be devoted to his allegedly scurrilous activities.
so, bookmark it, please, bro' focus is in possession of noo light, and we're going to explore russell like you've never seen him explored before.. we're approaching his 100th death anniversary, and for all i know this virtual exhumation may lead to a real one.
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Old Goat
This was before Income Tax. So there is little basis to assume a tax burden via income. Russell was obsesive over privacy. It was wrong, he thought, to appear generous. This came from his Presbyterian background and (I think) from some exposure to Plymouth Brethren practice. In any event, if the cemetery was meant to make money, it failed. The last plots were sold off by the society in more modern times at what must be considered a loss.
I mistrust newspaper articles. This one appears partially right. I suspect it would have been impossible for any of the original trustees to not know of Russell's connection to the cemetery, and they certainly knew his doctrine. Many of the Eagle articles do not hold up well when compared to the Russell v. Eagle transcript. But, other than reading the transcript and reports on Miracle Wheat, I haven't followed this. I'm more interested in other issues.
When I can, I'll scan the transcript for more relevant tesitmony.
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109
The Complete Scammer's Guide - by "Pastor" Russell (New Light!)
by Focus inmost of us are reasonably familiar with reports of scandalous goings-on of that old jellyfish lecher, the founder of the watchtower cult, the one and only charles taze russell.. but, are these stories true?.
this thread is going to be devoted to his allegedly scurrilous activities.
so, bookmark it, please, bro' focus is in possession of noo light, and we're going to explore russell like you've never seen him explored before.. we're approaching his 100th death anniversary, and for all i know this virtual exhumation may lead to a real one.
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Old Goat
It doesn't add much, but this is from Russell v. Brooklyn Eagle case on appeal. It's from the transcript of the original case, and is found on pages 178-180. I didn't have time to look for more detail. Perhaps later I can.
Walter E. Spill, residing at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, makes affirmation and is examined and testifies as follows:
Direct Examination by Mr. Sparks:
I am osteopathic physician practicing my profession. I know Mr. Bohnet. I am president of the United Cemeteries Company. As president of that company I authorized Mr. Bohnet to plant and use such part of the grounds of the cemetery as were not in use for cemetery purposes. I have been president, I believe about four years, maybe a little more or a little less. Mr. Bohnet had had that right and privilege during all the time I have been president.
Cross-Examination by Mr. Oeland:
I have been on the cemetery board about four years I believe. I have never had a patient buried there.
Q: What interest does the United States Investment Company own in the cemetery?
Objected to as incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial and not proper cross-examination.
The Court: What is the name?
Q: United States Investment Company – do you know the name?
Mr. Sparks: Objected to.
The Court: It may be connected.
Plaintiff excepts.
Q: What is the name of that cemetery?
A: I believe that the full name would be the Evergreeen Mount Hope Rosemont United Cemeteries Company.
Q: What interest does Mr. Russell own in it?
Objected to as imcompetent, irrelevant and immaterial and not proper cross-examination.
The Court: I will take what interest, if any, he owned at the time this wheat was planted by Mr. Bohnet.
Plaintiff excepts.
A: I don’t know.
Q: Do you know his handwriting when you see it?
A: I have seen letters that he wrote. I believe I would recognize his handwriting.
I believe that he was a trustee of the United Cemeteries Corporation. I don’t absolutely know it, in the corporation of which I am president. I know that he was at one time a trustee; when I was elected as president about four years ago.
By Mr. Oeland:
He was not the man that elected me.
By the Court:
I do not know whether this corporation is a stock corporation or a non-stock corporation.
By Mr. Oeland:
I am president of it. I came here as a witness.
By the Court:
The board of Directors have meetings; I preside at the meetings.
By Mr. Sparks:
Q: Do you know who some of the trustees are that you have met with personally at meetings?
A: No, sir; not as you put the question.
The Court: You don’t know who is on the board?
The Witness: I know who is on the Board of Directors.
Q: Is there a difference between the Board of Directors and the Board of Trustees?
A: Yes, sir; I understand there is.
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40
Did the GB ever receive new light without the passage of time forcing it upon them?
by Zoos in1914 did not bring the end they were hoping for so new light shone down from above and corrected their understanding.. 1925 also led to unfulfilled expectations and so new light was bestowed.. .
(i could go through all the dates and expectations... but i won't.).
what if the new light about 1914 being the year that christ returned was provided before 1914?
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Old Goat
DD
It was a change of view. Yes it was a flip flop, a return with slight changes to the Russell era interpretation. But it was presented as "new light."
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40
Did the GB ever receive new light without the passage of time forcing it upon them?
by Zoos in1914 did not bring the end they were hoping for so new light shone down from above and corrected their understanding.. 1925 also led to unfulfilled expectations and so new light was bestowed.. .
(i could go through all the dates and expectations... but i won't.).
what if the new light about 1914 being the year that christ returned was provided before 1914?
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Old Goat
To answer the original question:
Yes, in 1958 with the superior authorities doctrine and in 1964 with resurrection doctrine. Some of the 1964 changes (which seemed rational to me) were rolled back in the last few years.
Another would be tobacco use.
The problem with watchtower doctrinal development is that discussion and questions are discouraged to the point of intimidation.
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95
The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals
by cofty inmy thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.
this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.
it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.
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Old Goat
Isn't Focus the same guy who calls a potash operation Russell's secret gold mine? And builds his "history" page out of plagiarized, sometimes inaccurate material?
His crap reads the same. Probably is the same. Is he the same person who tried to sell a blury photocopy of Conley's photo on ebay and wrote endless crap and false claims in ebay sales descriptions? This is his victory on the internet? Don't they prescribe meds for that?
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47
A precious gift to all from Jehovah (channelled via Focus)
by Focus insome souls here may feel i was a little harsh.
if so, i am deeply sorry.
i was abused by a handful right from the start, presumably on the basis of the avatar picture (and 2001 vintage).. when visiting dubland, i often find that others start fights with me - for whatever reason, and i provide quite a supply of them - and when it doesn't quite go the way they expected, they cry persecution.
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Old Goat
Wild, unfounded speculation (ie Rutherfor poisoned Russell) and abuse are what marked us as crazies back in the day. It still does. Claiming victory when there is none reflects Sadam's mentality. Good luck with that.
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95
The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals
by cofty inmy thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.
this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.
it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.
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Old Goat
PhD or so? You are funny. BA, MA WSU; MA Whitman, BEd International, MEd WGU, PhD UnSA. Seems to me you're the one in need of education ... and counseling. All you are is an internet troll that seeks relevance and can't find it.
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95
The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals
by cofty inmy thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.
this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.
it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.
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Old Goat
Ucant,
I sympathise. I devoted years to what I saw as The Truth. I still believe that many Witnesses are christians. I dont' see current teaching and practice as christian. But I have regrets. I regret things I said because I now see them as wrong. I spent some months trying to redirect an abusive elder, and ended up being abusive myself. I am, alas, now a cranky old man.
But new life is new life. If you are certain the Witnesses are wrong, then don't look back. If you regret what you've done in the past, make is as right as you can and leave the rest in God's hands. If you feel you need to return to revalidate where you are, attend meetings for a while. See if you feel other than you once did.
I think the Watchtower is wrong in vital areas. I do not see them (most of them anyway) as anything but true believers, even if they are misguided. I'm not a uinversal salvationist, but I think the book of Jonah teaches that salvation comes even to those who are misguided and child-like. If Witnesses are that, they are still within God's Grace. I know not many here think similarly. But that is how I think.
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95
The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals
by cofty inmy thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.
this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.
it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.
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Old Goat
Ucant,
sorry. it's the old-time lecturer in me. If I treated you as one of my students, I apolgize.